Breaking Ground and Building Business Relationships with Fernando Eid Pires of AudioSigma | 110

Join me on the floor of Podfest 2023 in Orlando, FL, for an enlightening episode of Don't Skip the Legal Podcast. In this episode, Andy interviews Fernando Eid Pires, the creator of the innovative AudioSigma device designed to enhance audiobook recording. Fernando shares his expertise on legally securing ideas and products, including obtaining a provisional patent and trademark and provides lessons from his experiences in Brazil. Entrepreneurs and business owners seeking valuable advice on legally securing their ideas and products through the patent and trademark process won't miss this episode. Check out the AudioSigma website at www.audiosigma.com and contact Fernando on LinkedIn for more information.

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Please note that the legal information shared in this podcast is for general informational and entertainment purposes only. It is not a substitute for consulting with a licensed attorney for specific legal matters. Past performance does not indicate future results; every legal case is unique. Consult your own attorney for personalized legal advice.

Transcript

00;00;08;18 - 00;00;33;05
Andy Contiguglia
This is Andy Contiguglia your corporate casual Denver based business attorney bringing you the Don't Skip the legal podcast where you can listen in on the real stories, the real stakes, and the real legal lessons from real business owners just like you, these behind the door conversations about business are instrumental to your success. This is where the deals are made and negotiations are discussed and company problems are identified, leading you to overcoming the challenges we all face in our business.

00;00;33;06 - 00;00;55;08
Andy Contiguglia
This podcast is your invitation to where the real business happens and also where the best ideas take place. So let's get behind the doors and business and break down these legal lesson in overall. Remember, don't skip the legal this is a and accountability a bringing you the don't skip the legal podcast. This episode is brought to you from the floor at Podcast 2023 in Orlando, Florida.

00;00;55;08 - 00;01;19;03
Andy Contiguglia
This latest episode features Fernando Eid Pires, who has built a portable audio recording device because you really want to be able to record his audio book and the existing interface that he was using wasn't really good enough. He is an electrical engineer by just sort of his experience. And overall, this device that he created has received a very positive response from people that he's introduced it to.

00;01;19;15 - 00;01;47;13
Andy Contiguglia
And he has also taken all the necessary legal steps, like obtaining a provisional patent, doing the trademarking, the branding of his device. The conversation that we had on the floor there really covers the importance of securing your ideas in the products legally and also the process of obtaining patents and trademarks. This podcast offers valuable insights and advice for entrepreneurs and business owners as we explore the legal lessons Fernando has navigated, bringing his new product to market.

00;01;47;28 - 00;01;49;10
Andy Contiguglia
So let's dive in.

00;01;50;25 - 00;02;00;09
Andy Contiguglia
All right, there we go. We are with Fernando here in Pod Fest two 2023. Orlando Carlo in Orlando, Florida. Good to see you.

00;02;00;25 - 00;02;01;26
Fernando Eid Pires
Hey, how are you, my friend?

00;02;01;29 - 00;02;24;21
Andy Contiguglia
Doing well. We are here looking at your new audio segment. Check this thing out. Look at this podcast. Recording on the go. Smaller, portable. Ready to rock and roll. This is amazing. In its infancy, starting to build it out. We're recording on my iPhone, which is even better. So that's the quality that you're getting from this. Tell us a little bit about it.

00;02;25;10 - 00;02;37;03
Fernando Eid Pires
Well, it's it came about because I wanted to record my audio book and then the interface I had wasn't good enough. Instead of buying another one, I actually built one myself. And people seem to like it. So that's how it started.

00;02;37;25 - 00;02;59;22
Andy Contiguglia
Well, this is great. And I mean, we've had a lot of really good discussions, sort of as we've met here. And, you know, my angle, being a lawyer and everything, trying to sort of build and make sure that, you know, entrepreneurs and people who are starting their businesses, building products and things like that are not skipping the legal, as I always like to say, since, you know, my my mantra is don't skip the legal.

00;03;00;04 - 00;03;14;10
Andy Contiguglia
But what you've managed to do as you're setting up the next microphone here, you've done a lot of the basics that I see people missing. I mean, you have a provisional patent on your product. Oh, wow.

00;03;14;22 - 00;03;15;06
Fernando Eid Pires
I didn't know.

00;03;15;06 - 00;03;39;08
Andy Contiguglia
That. Yeah, no, that's reassuring. You've got your you've got your branding trademarked already. Yes. I mean, all these things people miss. Mm hmm. And I mean, look, let me ask you this question. And what shoot to too many late nights and my voices are cracking here. What? How did you know that that was those were some of the first steps you needed to take as you were building out your product.

00;03;39;15 - 00;04;03;05
Fernando Eid Pires
I have been I've been in this road for a while. I filed for a couple provisional patents when I was in Brazil. And it's a very involved process, expensive as well. I worked for seven years for Keith here. And then, you know, doing my research, I think I came across well, I actually not only came across, but I learned about I learned a lot from Stephen King.

00;04;04;03 - 00;04;33;06
Fernando Eid Pires
I think that's his name. He's got a couple books called One Idea or something like that. I don't quite remember. But he talks about the provisional patent and the provisional patterns and next new tool, because you have one year of head room to test your thing. So you've got to be quick. Right. But, you know, if you have something that is proven to be valuable in your hands, then you can at least, you know, save the money in a pattern with a little bit of peace of mind because the president have done in Brazil.

00;04;34;09 - 00;04;40;21
Fernando Eid Pires
Literally, I just just lost money, my money, my time. It was quite, quite appalling, to be honest.

00;04;40;21 - 00;04;47;08
Andy Contiguglia
With like I can imagine that the patent process in Brazil is a lot different than it is here in the United States.

00;04;47;08 - 00;05;07;26
Fernando Eid Pires
I think it's really similar. I think the laws are also quite similar. It was it was very smooth, but it's just a lot of work to write the final report and all the claims and all that. It's just a it's one of, you know, is it consumes you with a lot of time. And, you know, it's it's not worthwhile.

00;05;07;26 - 00;05;26;29
Fernando Eid Pires
If it's if the money doesn't pay off either, then it's it's hard and here's not different. But here the US, the only country as far as I know is the only country that allows you the privilege of paying for a provisional ballot. And so if you're broke and you've spent $70, $75 last time to chat.

00;05;27;06 - 00;05;29;13
Andy Contiguglia
I know no broke entrepreneurs. No, no, no.

00;05;29;18 - 00;05;41;10
Fernando Eid Pires
No, no, no. They're all rich, you know, they all start rich and they continue to be rich and then they get richer. That's right. You know, and I'm not lying, by the way.

00;05;41;10 - 00;05;51;03
Andy Contiguglia
Yeah, that's funny. So you built this out. You have you're an electrical engineer by by training, but by education. How did you get broken into?

00;05;51;21 - 00;05;52;05
Fernando Eid Pires
Self-taught.

00;05;52;08 - 00;05;54;16
Andy Contiguglia
Self-taught. And it's fantastic. Yeah. Oh.

00;05;54;25 - 00;06;18;21
Fernando Eid Pires
You start at the age of four. Okay. So I've been doing this for 31 years. Out of 25, 28 years old, I was hired from Brazil to work at Chico. And then, of course, that really also benefited me because I got to work with many other engineers and I'm their senior design engineer. So, I mean, they they were fine with the fact that I didn't have a degree.

00;06;18;21 - 00;06;31;28
Fernando Eid Pires
I certainly don't feel the necessity to go get one now. You know, I can I can do the things. So it's not like law or medicine that you have to have a degree to practice, because otherwise it's criminal. If you burn a transistor, it's okay.

00;06;32;20 - 00;06;53;00
Andy Contiguglia
You're allowed to do you're allowed to fix the path of of everything on that. So how did you come up with this design? What was your what was your impetus behind why you wanted to design this? I mean, there are there are a number of products like this out there. How does your product differ from all the others and what big changes did you want to make in your product to make it easier for the user?

00;06;53;10 - 00;06;54;09
Andy Contiguglia
Yeah. Huh.

00;06;54;23 - 00;07;14;09
Fernando Eid Pires
Well, you know how the interfaces they, they actually the name is proper, right. It's an audio interface. It sounds like an it is a generic audio input and output device. So if you're going to record your guitar, you get an out interface, you're going to record a podcast, you get an out interface. If you want to record a voiceover work, you get an all interface.

00;07;14;21 - 00;07;44;06
Fernando Eid Pires
But it's this generic looking thing that if I give it to my mom, she can't figure out because the labels are like pad game office monitor is like, What is this stuff like? Like if somebody doesn't have some level proficiency, the, you know, out of your own is hard to figure out and the pod mobile, the name suggests it's purpose designed and built for interviews and podcasts.

00;07;44;06 - 00;08;10;01
Fernando Eid Pires
Right, right. And the voiceover community fell in love with it because the the noise the noise floor is also low. End is huge. So they love it because they can do voiceover work and like it's only their voice like with voice in the back, right. So they fell in love with because of the quality. So I was lucky in a way to literally get that idea out of my, you know, like I didn't the real, you know, I didn't really do market research.

00;08;10;01 - 00;08;16;12
Fernando Eid Pires
And it just so happens that it, you know, it fits at least two customer segments, voiceover and podcasting very well.

00;08;16;17 - 00;08;36;28
Andy Contiguglia
Well, what I'm what I'm fascinated by with all this and, you know, my my setup is really simple. So you and I are sitting here having breakfast and we're talking about it, and you pull this out and you're like, Hey, let's give this a shot. Yeah. So here we are on this impromptu sort of interview with one another about building this out here in, you know, a banquet hall.

00;08;37;02 - 00;08;56;29
Andy Contiguglia
We've got probably 150 people around us eating breakfast. Yes. There's a little bit of ambient, you know, noise and talking behind us. But for the middle boy, here we are. We've got our mics and we're putting together this, you know, this this interview. But I mean, what have you started your company? Are you building it out on your own?

00;08;56;29 - 00;09;00;12
Andy Contiguglia
How how did you decide you wanted to organize your business?

00;09;00;12 - 00;09;22;28
Fernando Eid Pires
And I love your question. Okay. So lifelong dream to become an employer. Okay. Okay. Because everybody needs work. Not everybody's willing to go through the motions and the difficulties of starting a company. And, you know, instead of just taking the job, I'd like to create jobs. Right. So huge motivation for me. The other thing that, you know, somebody that knows me very well said if you don't own it, you don't love it.

00;09;22;28 - 00;09;46;01
Fernando Eid Pires
So yeah. So I have that personal necessity of having my own company worked as an entrepreneur in Brazil for ten years then got I couldn't refuse the job and keep here was amazing like the I mean I had a green card in two years I've been treated extremely well by them and it's been excellent working for them. So I could sit back and just chill, you know, and buy nice things.

00;09;46;01 - 00;10;09;20
Fernando Eid Pires
But instead I live rather frugally and I put all the money into this venture here because I know that when I'm 40, 15, 60, I don't want to have that. I want to be having my company and, you know, taking care of green jobs and company culture and deciding what we are doing and why instead of figuring out how and calculating the resistor on the board.

00;10;09;20 - 00;10;14;29
Fernando Eid Pires
So this needs to happen and I better move now than later. So I answer your question.

00;10;15;14 - 00;10;20;07
Andy Contiguglia
For the most part, I think. I mean, how are you set up? How is your business structure set up? Are you an LLC?

00;10;20;11 - 00;10;23;17
Fernando Eid Pires
Oh, you've got it's an AC. Okay. Yeah, it's an LLC.

00;10;23;17 - 00;10;27;04
Andy Contiguglia
So solo member. You're the only member of your LLC.

00;10;27;04 - 00;10;47;24
Fernando Eid Pires
Correct point. Okay. Correct. Yeah. So far it's an LLC one member. But I'm at a wonderful guy. There's like we've been friends for a while and he's an awesome sales guy. I trust him with my life. And we're going to go into this 85% me a 50%, 15% him. So I would partner up and promise a new LLC.

00;10;47;24 - 00;10;50;28
Fernando Eid Pires
But the the I don't think my name remains.

00;10;51;12 - 00;11;11;18
Andy Contiguglia
So let me ask you this question. What do you see? What is keeping you up at night as you build your business? So here you go. You're so I mean, we're 9 minutes into this interview right now. I'm giving you a consultation. Okay, cool. What do you want? What do you want to learn? You're here. We're friends. We're going to build this relationship as we move forward.

00;11;11;18 - 00;11;14;05
Andy Contiguglia
So what can I do to help you until maybe.

00;11;14;23 - 00;11;34;03
Fernando Eid Pires
I don't really know yet, but what keeps me up at night is the manufacturing, because currently I build the units myself. So if you hit me up on LinkedIn, you will not find this to sell online anywhere or in store whatsoever because it is not for sale publicly. But you know, if you hit me up, I build them one myself.

00;11;34;03 - 00;11;56;12
Fernando Eid Pires
But I need to figure out a company, trustworthy company, to build this with quality. And I don't want to build in China for multiple reasons. We don't need to go there. But the price of building this in the US is is 2.5 times higher than China. So that's been keeping be a keeping me up at night because it's definitely the funnel in this equation.

00;11;56;21 - 00;12;09;22
Fernando Eid Pires
So I'm not yet talking about it. I'm not, you know, going, you know, making a carnival mark and being an exhibitor here or anything of the sort because the content is limited.

00;12;09;22 - 00;12;30;07
Andy Contiguglia
Well, we had an interesting discussion before we started reporting, and that was, you know, as I was talking to you about, you know, financing options, finding investors, capital that could. Right. Right. You know, I mentioned, you know, an opportunity that many entrepreneurs take on in the United States going through Indiegogo.

00;12;30;13 - 00;12;32;22
Fernando Eid Pires
Angel Oh yeah, that's a great point.

00;12;32;29 - 00;12;35;10
Andy Contiguglia
You're right, right? You were like, I don't want to do that.

00;12;35;10 - 00;12;36;06
Fernando Eid Pires
Yeah, I don't want to do that.

00;12;36;09 - 00;12;57;13
Andy Contiguglia
It's interesting in the tech space because what you brought up to me, I hadn't really thought about it. Right? So for me, in understanding where your head is when it comes to technology, I think this is really a big a big deal. So tell us exactly why you are, at least at this point, hesitant to go on to one of those platforms to raise money for your business venture?

00;12;57;25 - 00;13;18;29
Fernando Eid Pires
Yeah. So as far as that goes, like what's an electronic device? And you do crowdfunding, Indiegogo, Kickstarter, any of those platforms. You know, a lot of, you know, eyes on it and you know, you can get and I want to say China, but I'm saying already but you know, it could very well have that idea copied, you know, and maybe they will go to market before you do.

00;13;18;29 - 00;13;39;07
Fernando Eid Pires
And then what do you do? You know? So I'm like, okay, I think eventually that we'll get a copy. But if I got gotten enough momentum already in the name out there and that knock off is not the death sentence of my business, okay, so be it. Amount to the next thing. But if I start from scratch with Kickstarter or Indiegogo, who knows?

00;13;39;07 - 00;13;41;23
Fernando Eid Pires
Maybe they beat you to the market and then you're done.

00;13;41;28 - 00;14;02;21
Andy Contiguglia
Well, there are two big things in business. You want to either be best price or first to market. Yeah, and I think you raise a pretty good point that in many instances when you have, you know, people from China who might be looking in the tech space, they can build it faster in beta markets and they can build a cheaper and own price.

00;14;02;22 - 00;14;26;18
Fernando Eid Pires
Yeah, because they're in their hub already, they already have like factories and factories around them. Maybe they have a factory themselves, you know, so maybe they are the factory. So while you're shopping around for factory, they're like they're already setting up the production line then. Yeah, right. So and the other aspect personally and that's in me is that I'm not on this to, you know, I want to build this business of business.

00;14;26;18 - 00;14;49;11
Fernando Eid Pires
No, no, I'm on this because I want this to be a life long career. So as much as I can, I will self understand. And, you know, investors and investors only welcome in my my company when they bring more than money when they bring their sweat and that's to most and hopefully a wealth of knowledge as well. Complementary skills.

00;14;49;11 - 00;15;08;00
Andy Contiguglia
Or so. I think that's a really good point because I mean, you mentioned your your business partner. I can't become a business partner, for lack of a better term. At the time this person's coming in, he's going to get 15%. How do you envision his involvement within your company and with the build out of this product?

00;15;08;06 - 00;15;10;13
Fernando Eid Pires
Well, if I do my job right, he'll be a full time guy.

00;15;10;22 - 00;15;12;22
Andy Contiguglia
Okay. In what capacity?

00;15;12;22 - 00;15;33;14
Fernando Eid Pires
I'm a salesperson. Okay. Now, he's a great sales guy. An excellent sales guy and just wonderful. You can sit here with him and be friends. Like almost immediately in his a genuine person. He's not, you know, faking it his in just that guy community oriented. So he's got the skills that I don't have I got easily overwhelmed with stuff I'm not the best sales person at all.

00;15;33;27 - 00;15;52;03
Fernando Eid Pires
So I'm a good engineer, excellent engineer. But I'm a probably, I'd say not even average, you know, substandard sales guy. And Jeff's got all these, you know, complementary skills. Well, I look up to him as a guy, as a person is a good man.

00;15;52;03 - 00;16;13;27
Andy Contiguglia
There's an old saying in, if you've ever watched horseracing, you don't bet on the horse. You bet on the jockey. Yeah. And so what you're, you know, an important concept here. And this is, you know, in 27 years of representing businesses and partnerships and, you know, people who go into business with one another, I always see these relationships that start off great and then end up deteriorating.

00;16;13;28 - 00;16;48;04
Andy Contiguglia
Oh, yeah. And the reason for that is because the relationship is built not on the skills necessarily that the person is bringing to the table. Right. And I think what you need to do is, is focus on skills. You really need to keep it professional. You need to make sure that all your agreements are in place and to make sure that you have a shareholder agreement or in your case, an operating agreement that manages how your company's going to be organized and managed and ownership and how you're going to split and distribute profits and things like that down the line.

00;16;48;19 - 00;16;54;11
Andy Contiguglia
Because as much as you guys love each other now, there's going to be a time that you might hate each other's guts.

00;16;54;13 - 00;16;59;11
Fernando Eid Pires
Well, yeah, that's entirely possible, but I think it's unlikely with this particular person.

00;16;59;11 - 00;17;01;12
Andy Contiguglia
Has had a lot of people say that.

00;17;01;19 - 00;17;15;27
Fernando Eid Pires
Well, you know, I think your plan, your decision is healthy and justified. And I hope that that's not the case. But I'm not saying it won't be the case. It could be the case, but I rather lose the business side of things with him than lose his friendship.

00;17;16;05 - 00;17;29;18
Andy Contiguglia
So my point is, I don't think there's anything wrong with going into business with your friends. I think the key needs to be act as if they aren't your friend. You're not planning for the start, you're planning for the end.

00;17;29;26 - 00;17;30;06
Fernando Eid Pires
Yes.

00;17;30;13 - 00;17;47;11
Andy Contiguglia
And the goal here is to protect yourself when the shit hits the fan total. And all of this is breaking down and you hate each other's guts and one's ready to leave and you're sick and tired of this guy because he ran off and took the company credit card and bought a Ferrari.

00;17;47;11 - 00;17;48;17
Fernando Eid Pires
Yeah, exactly. Who is.

00;17;49;02 - 00;18;06;20
Andy Contiguglia
That? I know you would, but. Yeah, but you know, these are the things that happen because I've represented companies where that has happened in in in the breakdown in the relationship is the work. They call it a business divorce for a reason and you need to protect yourself going into that.

00;18;06;23 - 00;18;08;24
Fernando Eid Pires
So what's your advice for me?

00;18;08;24 - 00;18;16;26
Andy Contiguglia
Get a really good operating agreement. Really define the roles and responsibilities for what he's going to do and what you're going to do.

00;18;16;26 - 00;18;17;09
Fernando Eid Pires
I love it.

00;18;17;14 - 00;18;27;25
Andy Contiguglia
Define how what role he's going to play. Is he going to be an employee? Is he going to be a manager? Is he going to be just an owner? Because in a business you can wear all three of those hats.

00;18;27;25 - 00;18;30;27
Fernando Eid Pires
Can you help me with that agreement? Of course. Like, okay, can we shake on that.

00;18;31;10 - 00;18;34;00
Andy Contiguglia
Of first because I'm of my make of my chicken.

00;18;34;04 - 00;18;38;09
Fernando Eid Pires
That's fine. Yeah. Sounds good, man. I think you have great points there.

00;18;38;09 - 00;19;00;02
Andy Contiguglia
So I'm excited for you. I think this is great and it's been really fun getting to know you over this. And again, this the audio sygma product. Here it is again. This little streaming thing. And based on everything that we have sort of discovered and learned throughout this conference, there are similar products that are a lot bigger.

00;19;00;27 - 00;19;01;21
Fernando Eid Pires
Yeah. And they do.

00;19;01;21 - 00;19;10;09
Andy Contiguglia
Last the fact and they do lessen the fact that you can throw this nice little package into your backpack, in your briefcase and throw it around and have available to you.

00;19;10;23 - 00;19;12;12
Fernando Eid Pires
The mic spigot in the thing. Yeah.

00;19;12;22 - 00;19;22;08
Andy Contiguglia
It is. It is totally. And we're recording this on my, my iPhone, which is even more remarkable. And I'm excited to sort of see how this breaks down and move forward.

00;19;22;08 - 00;19;34;21
Fernando Eid Pires
So, yeah, well, I'll keep you in the loop. And when I went, it's not an if, it's when I need legal advice at work. I know who who to go to. Alrighty. So appreciate the maybe that was meant to be.

00;19;34;22 - 00;19;35;25
Andy Contiguglia
I'm always here for my friends.

00;19;35;25 - 00;19;37;08
Fernando Eid Pires
Thank you. It's really awesome.

00;19;37;22 - 00;19;39;03
Andy Contiguglia
Enjoy the rest of the cast. I'd like to say.

00;19;39;10 - 00;19;45;22
Fernando Eid Pires
Thank you, my friend. Thank you. All right.

00;19;45;22 - 00;20;04;06
Andy Contiguglia
Thank you for listening to the Don't Skip the legal podcast. I'm your host and accountability. I hope you enjoyed our time together in this great opportunity to peek behind the business door and examine the legal lessons in business. If you're keen to hear how these lessons can be applied in the real world, well, join us next week for another episode where you can listen in to another business success story.

00;20;04;06 - 00;20;20;15
Andy Contiguglia
As always, you can head over to Cantabile dot com forward slash podcast to sign up to our email list as well as check out all the links and resources in our show notes. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social media or leave a rating and review to catch all the latest for me.

00;20;20;15 - 00;20;46;10
Andy Contiguglia
You can follow me on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok at age. Eskew thanks again. This is Andy counterculture reminding you to don't skip the legal good luck. The legal information contained in this podcast is intended for general informational and entertainment purposes only. It should only be used as a starting point for addressing your specific legal issue. The legal information I talk about does not create an attorney client relationship between you and me.

00;20;46;10 - 00;21;06;19
Andy Contiguglia
This podcast is not a substitute for an in-person or telephonic consultation with a lawyer whose license to practice in your jurisdiction about your specific legal issue. And you should not rely on this legal information for those purposes. You understand that questions and answers or other information contained in this podcast are not confidential and are not subject to attorney client privilege.

00;21;06;19 - 00;21;22;28
Andy Contiguglia
I am not providing you a legal service. Every legal case is different and past performance is not indicative of future results. Please consult your own attorney.